Lafayette Ave. Presbyterian Church

Shane Claiborne (spoke last night, from the Simple Way and author of “Jesus for President”)

Q: Ho do you identify temptation? Is it because it is a luxury?

A: “All temptations are a temptation to do something good. . . . the tree wasn’t bad fruit . . . the temptation was to be like God . . . to rip up the weeds that were growing with the wheat . . . everyone who has done evil in the world ha thought they were doing good.” “I love that you say the remedy is love. The litmus test is does it look like Jesus? if we don’t hear the gospel of enemy love . . . if we don’t see the way of the cross.”

“When we moved into community, we thought we’d just move in and love each other (laughs)”

“Everybody wants a revolution, but nobody wants to do the dishes . . .we have to create structures that cultivate goodness.” “We have to create an environment where it easier to be good.”

That’s why they don’t have alcohol, or tv–not because they are bad, but because its better for the community.

Bart Campolo (Urban Minister from Philly, now in Cincinnatti)

Q: How do you convince people to choose love?

A: Before you advocate for the poor, you should spend time with the poor. “I was dazzingly good at talking about poor people . . .but every illustration I had was 15 years old (after 15 years with mission year) . . . you won’t do theology right unless your theology is rooted in real relationship with the poor, but the more I listen to people at stuff like this, I’m not convinced that many of our relationships would withstand relationship with poor people. ’cause in my neighborhood? . . . If you tutor an inner-city kid for six months, you will think that lives can change, but if you live in my neighborhood . . .there are people in my neighborhood that are terminally broken . . .and you can’t help them, but you can love them . . . I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything anymore, I just try to love them . . .There’s an optimism that I’m not sure I have anymore. That’s a terrible answer to your question.”

Ann (a therapist to people in very hard situations)

Q: Is there hope in these situations?

A: “We have to show them what love means . . .love, for these kids (abused) is all the wrong things . . .if you love me then you won’t tell on me . . .when they come they are completely broken . . .God almost always looks like the person that abused them . . .strong powerful, hovering over them.”

“Where does God fit in? When we get out of the way, and allow the relationship to be with the child as they experience God . . .it’s not about fixing every problem, but walking with them in that journey . . .there may not be a happy ending, but are you willing to sit there and stroke their hair in that moment of need . . .there’s always hope, but the people have to find it in relationship . . . if I see your eyes, that’s enough.”

Miroslav Wolf (Theology Professor and author)

Q: How do we resist the temptation to hate our enemies when our safety is threatend (as with terrorism)

A: “First, by not denying it . . . too quick of a way of going to embrace is just too quick. I think that’s its appropriate for us to be kind of wrathful . . .and then place that wrath before God. There’s so much to be angry about . . . appropriately angry about, and yet how do we sanctify that anger? How do we transform that into love? . . . beneficent action toward the enemy? . . .by placing it at the cross . . .at the cross it is dealt with . . .transformed . . . revenge is so natural . . .it takes immense courage and strength, knowing our lives are not our own . . .knowing that when we love, we will not be the losers . . .Every act of grace is a risk . . .”

Lisa

Q: Respond.

A: “I love that answer . . . (tells a story of anger) . . . I get really angry at the dumping of garbage on the poor . . . I have to choose . . .I can be complacent . . . or rage, not with love . . . but that’s not prophetic. The prophetic response is to stand in solidarity with. . .we love–God and the images of God that are being crushed throughout the South Bronx . . .my hope does not come from seeing the reality–it’s truly rooted in the word–Isaiah 61 in particular . . . that’s where my hope comes from . . .In my experience, what I’ve seen, is that poor people are extremely resourceful, and they know their problem . . . what needs to happen is that there needs to be someone to remind them of the image of God in them . . . ”

Jeremy Del Rio (Minister, organizer, author, from new york)

Q: How can youth grasp this? On a personal level? On a practical level?

A: “In NYC there 1.2 million 18 and under in the public school system” 60% don’t read at grade level. That’s larger than most cities. “This has happened for decades. In a context like that , what does shalom mean?”

“In the church we have been complicit in a myth that if you stay in school you will be all right.”

“If you are functionally illiterate, how do you wrestle with the written word?” and the economic terms of Christian theology . . . “We’ve perpetuated this idea even as we have pulled our kids out of the environment.”

“The fact that we preach good news to them is inconsistent with the environment we’ve created for them. It’s inconsistent.”

“Being born again is just one of hundreds of metaphors for what relationship with God is like . . .sheep and goats . . .for me, the moment in which I decided to follow Christ was when I was brought to the streets of New York city . . . and going to to the places where sin abounded . . . as I interacted with those kids, that’s where I met Jesus. . .I fell in love with Jesus because he took me out among the people he cares so deeply about . . .we’ve got to get up close and personal . . .fishers of men . . fish congregate in schools . . .if we are absent from that space”

Bart:

“if your theology says this world isn’t the thing, than you won’t engage in public schools . . .we beleive that somehow we are supposed to transform this world . . . and we all clap for that . . . Lisa was brought out to remind us of that . . .most of us are evangelicals, or at least were . . . I just want to talk. My theolgy didn’t withstand the neighborhood. You may believe the world is going to be transformed, but not for THAT kid. . . today somebody, that happened to them. . . one of the evangelical essentials is that you need to accept Jesus before you die . . . if you believe that . . .there are serious implcactions . . . the people we missed are going to burn in hell . . . I watch one too many people who’s ticket got punched before they got a chance to live . . .I had to stop belieing that God couldn’t save people on the other side . . .for some of you, that’s hooray, another universalist, for others, ‘I can’t believe he’s not a Christian.” . . . they think God can do anything except that. “you can’t have a theology of exclusion, and a politics of inclusion. . .most of us think we can come to social justice, bringing a theology we grew up with . . .there are theological implications to taking on the problems of the world . . .you better be careful, because your heart will take you places that will twist your theology.”

Wolf: there are other non-universalist options, like Von Balthshazzar. Hope for all, but not being able to assert it. The church has never affirmed strict univeralism, and I think with good reason. but we can hope.

Wow. There’s more good stuff, but batteries are almost gone. More later.